Awakening to the Divine: Lessons from Lisa Miller's Spiritual Journey
On this enlightening episode of "Deadly Departed," join our host, Jock Brocas, as he delves into the captivating work and research of renowned psychologist, Dr. Lisa Miller. A pioneer in the field of spiritual psychology, Dr. Miller offers groundbreaking insights into the profound connection between our brains and spiritual experiences.
From her extensive research, Dr. Miller reveals that our minds are not solely instruments of logic and physical processing, but are also intrinsically set for spiritual transcendence. Her revolutionary findings invite listeners to contemplate the idea of an "Awakened Brain" - one that seamlessly integrates rational thinking and spiritual awareness.
In a riveting conversation that merges the scientific with the spiritual, Jock Brocas and Dr. Miller embark on a journey that challenges conventional wisdom and unfolds the complex tapestry of the human psyche. Unearth the transformative potential of spirituality and neuroscience intertwined, and discover a fresh, new perspective on the innate spiritual capacity of our minds.
Don't miss this thought-provoking exploration into the realm of the 'Awakened Brain.' It's an enlightening episode that promises to stimulate your intellect and awaken your spirit.
Connect with Dr Miller - https://www.lisamillerphd.com/
. The dialogue presented in this episode traverses profound themes pertaining to the intersection of spirituality and scientific inquiry, as articulated by Professor Lisa Miller, the esteemed author of 'The Awakened Brain.' Our discourse elucidates the intricacies of her personal journey through the realms of grief, spiritual awakening, and the empirical methodologies that underpin her research. Professor Miller elucidates that her narrative is not merely academic; it is a tapestry woven from the threads of her lived experiences, illuminating how trauma can serve as a conduit for spiritual enlightenment. This episode endeavors to unpack the notion that our consciousness is not only a product of biological processes but is also imbued with a divine essence that beckons us toward a higher state of awareness. I delve into the poignant moments of Lisa's life that catalyzed her awakening, including her struggles with fertility and the eventual realization that parenthood could manifest not through conventional means but rather through adoption. The dialogue encourages listeners to reflect on their own paths and the potential for spiritual growth that arises from embracing adversity. Through this exploration, we advocate for a reconciliatory approach between science and spirituality, positing that both are essential in understanding the human experience.
Takeaways:
- In this episode of Deadly Departed, we explore the intersection of spirituality and science, particularly through the insights from Lisa Miller's book, The Awakened Brain.
- Lisa Miller discusses her transformative journey that combines her scientific background with her deep spiritual experiences and awakenings.
- The narrative emphasizes that profound personal trauma can serve as a catalyst for spiritual awakening and deeper understanding of oneself.
- Miller articulates the concept that our brains are inherently wired for spiritual awareness, suggesting a biological basis for our spiritual experiences.
- The episode highlights the importance of recognizing synchronicities in life as guidance from the universe, fostering a deeper connection to our spiritual paths.
- Listeners are encouraged to view their moments of despair as invitations to explore their spirituality and embrace a path of awakening.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- University of Columbia
- Deadly Departed
- Awakened Brain
Transcript
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker A:This is Jock here, and this is Deadly Departed, the guest who's coming on this is Lisa Miller, who is the author of the Awakened Brain.
Speaker A:You know, in Deadly Departed, we have many different parapsychologists.
Speaker A:We touch on the paranormal, we touch on parapsychology, we touch on psi.
Speaker A:And oftentimes there are experiences that we don't understand, and science doesn't necessarily understand these experiences either.
Speaker A:So it's brilliant when you come across some research and some work that actually spans a great deal of consciousness, the paranormal, spirituality, spiritual awakening, and precognition.
Speaker A:And all of this is experienced in Lisa's work.
Speaker A:In fact, actually experienced in Lisa's life.
Speaker A:And she's a professor at the University of Columbia.
Speaker A:I hope I got that right.
Speaker A:And the work that she's done has been revolutionary.
Speaker A:I believe in bringing spirituality and spiritual awakening to science and to the mainstream as well.
Speaker A:So I can't wait, guys, for you to meet Lisa and to dive into her work and to dive into what it meant for her and her experiences over the years.
Speaker A:And in fact, she's actually now running a spiritual psychology program in an Ivy League school.
Speaker A:So let's dive in, let's get right to it, and meet Lisa.
Speaker A:God bless.
Speaker B:Welcome to Deadly Departed.
Speaker B:The do's, don'ts and dangers of afterlife communication.
Speaker B:This show discusses all aspects of afterlife communication, grief and grieving, the paranormal, and of course, parapsychology.
Speaker B:There's real stories, scientific discussion, and most of all, real learning from paranormal experts and researchers.
Speaker B:Here's your host, author of Deadly Departed, renowned evidential medium and spirit interventionist, Jock Brocas.
Speaker A:Okay, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker A:This is Jock from Deadly Departed.
Speaker A:And as you've probably seen from my introduction, I am rather excited to speak to Lisa Miller, who is my guest today, who's Professor Lisa Miller, the author of the Awakened Brain.
Speaker A:And as you'll know, this is one of my most favorite books at the moment.
Speaker A:And we're going to talk about Lisa's work, the Science of Spirituality, and her story of awakening and Lisa, welcome to Deadly Departed.
Speaker A:It's great to see you.
Speaker C:I'm so grateful to be with you, Jock.
Speaker C:And I'm honored to share in this community of very attuned, open people.
Speaker C:So this is really a particular joy.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:I'm delighted.
Speaker A:As you know, I was excited to get you, and it took us a long time to do this, and then yesterday we actually started doing it and had technical difficulties.
Speaker A:So hopefully today we'll have no problem.
Speaker C:But as you know, time is an active variable.
Speaker C:This may be the right time.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:It's divine timing.
Speaker A:Divine timing.
Speaker A:So tell us a little bit about, obviously about your.
Speaker A:About your history.
Speaker A:Let's go in a little bit about your history until you got to the point of writing the book, because that's very important to lay the foundation of your work.
Speaker C:Thank you, Jacques.
Speaker C:And you know, as a scientist, when I wrote the Awakened Brain, it was important to me that the Awakened Brain be about a personal journey, about the deep, hard data of our lived inner experience, every bit as much as the outward science.
Speaker C:And so the Awakened Brain is really about my journey on a spiritual path, as we all have a spiritual path, and how some of the most painful times in our lives are the traumas, the pains that are excruciating at times in the heart are actually the gateway.
Speaker A:To a spiritual awakening, you know, in your life.
Speaker A:Obviously, with your scientific background, it's probably really difficult for others to really appreciate how you brought together your science and your spirit.
Speaker A:Because in your, you know, as I, you know, recognize from your book, you have grief, you have, you know, spiritual awakening, you've attended shamanic practices, and yet you're steeped in this materialistic science.
Speaker A:And we'll go into that a little bit later, but you're kind of steeped in this world of science.
Speaker A:And I love how you open up at the very beginning of the book with the idea or proven essentially that our brain is actually built up for spiritual advancement and spiritual awareness.
Speaker A:But, I mean, in your book, you've had precognition, you've had intuition, you've had psychic ability.
Speaker A:How can you actually bring all that together in your experience to come out, if you, like, come out of the scientific closet?
Speaker C:And all of those forms of knowing, as I share in the Awakened Brain are hardwired, valid forms of knowing.
Speaker C:And I know that through my spiritual path.
Speaker C:I know that through the outward lens of science, and both are woven together in the Awakened Brain.
Speaker C:But because you so graciously invited me, Jacques, to share the story, I'm grateful to share this story with your community, like many people in my 30s, wanted to start a family.
Speaker C:And my husband and I, at that point had done everything by the book that we had wanted to set up our lives in a sort of outward way.
Speaker C:So he was working as a lawyer in New York.
Speaker C:We had an apartment and we had friends, and I had made my way through a PhD program and was now a clinical psychologist.
Speaker C:And everything was all set up, and it was time for us to start a family.
Speaker C:Listen now implicitly from the illusion of control that humans hit the button when out.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Cloak is ticking.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then I sort of pull the cord.
Speaker C:And now, now is time.
Speaker C:We will start our family as if humans made life.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So there we were and we started to so called try as we understood it at that time.
Speaker C:We did it in the way many couples do.
Speaker C:We said, we will take a vacation to the Caribbean.
Speaker C:We went off to St. Martin, and it was beautiful and the sun was bright.
Speaker C:And in a little cottage we so called tried.
Speaker C:And a few weeks later, no baby.
Speaker C:And we thought, well, who gets one for one?
Speaker C:So we went off to Sedona.
Speaker C:Nice, bright spiritual place.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Still no baby.
Speaker C:And after this went on for about six, eight, ten months, I started to get this haunting feeling like, wait a minute, what if we can't conceive?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker C:And it was so horrifying to me that I pushed it out of my mind.
Speaker C:I couldn't even bear, what if we can't conceive?
Speaker C:So I went further down this path and further down this path, and we started to feel quite.
Speaker C:Not just disappointed, but after a while, a longing depression, even really a despairing hit in.
Speaker A:Wow, you really hit rock bottom.
Speaker C:Hit rock bottom.
Speaker C:And we had.
Speaker C:Okay, let's get help.
Speaker C:So we went to an excellent fertility doctor on the Upper west side where we were living.
Speaker C:No baby.
Speaker C:We thought, well, we don't need to limit it to our neighborhood just because it's an easy walk.
Speaker C:Let's search the Northeast.
Speaker C:I'm a clinical scientist.
Speaker C:Let's find the highest rates of conception.
Speaker C:We went to that office.
Speaker C:No baby.
Speaker C:And as we went further down this path, iui, ivf, second ivf, I. I started to get this haunting feeling that, you know, the message from doctors was, you're healthy, you're healthy, we can get you pregnant again.
Speaker C:The human control implicit in all this.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:But I started to wonder in my heart if we were in the wrong place.
Speaker C:It just didn't feel that in our path, this is where we were being called.
Speaker C:But this hunger to have a child was so great that I kept going and I said, let's go to the people and who invented ivf.
Speaker C:Surely they can get us pregnant.
Speaker C:And sure, this team had come up with it a couple decades ago.
Speaker C:And there we were, pretty despairing, pretty depleted, but hopeful because here's the best team in the whole country.
Speaker C:My heart still knew it was inauthentic.
Speaker C:Our path was inauthentic for us.
Speaker C:So sitting there posting ivf, you know, they put the fertilized eggs back in.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:My husband, being very sweet, he sat beside me in solidarity on bed rest.
Speaker C:So there we were, side by side on bed rest.
Speaker C:And in this, you know, we wanted to be nice to ourselves.
Speaker C:It was just one night.
Speaker C:We splurged for a very nice hotel in Rittenhouse Square.
Speaker C:We click the remote, my husband, and on the tv, there's only one channel.
Speaker C:And we think, well, wait a minute, you know, at these prices.
Speaker C:So we're clicking, clicking.
Speaker C:One channel, like taps bangs, goes to the tv.
Speaker C:One channel.
Speaker C:What are we watching?
Speaker C:Really, the only choice that we might watch was a excruciating four hour jock.
Speaker C:This was a documentary on an orphan.
Speaker A:I remember that.
Speaker A:I remember that in the book.
Speaker A:It's quite a poignant moment, actually.
Speaker C:Very much so.
Speaker C:We're on our seventh in vitro third team trying to get pregnant.
Speaker C:Human control.
Speaker C:Pull out the stops.
Speaker C:And what comes back to us from the universe is the voice of a little orphan through a translator standing in a garbage dump.
Speaker C:And he says, I don't care that I live in the trash.
Speaker C:He's literally living in trash.
Speaker C:I don't care that I can't go to school.
Speaker C:But it hurts so much to not be loved that I sniff glue.
Speaker A:That actually brought a bit of tear in my eye when I read that.
Speaker C:I sniffed glue to make the pain go away of not being loved.
Speaker C:The orphan said, all I want is love.
Speaker C:So here we are on this really kind of, you know, solipsistic.
Speaker C:Let's get that baby that has, you know, your looks and your humor and, you know, and, you know, my resilience.
Speaker C:And let's get that baby that's us in a very material sense, in a very human control sense, like air traffic control.
Speaker C:Let's control the variables.
Speaker C:And the universe says, all he needed, this boy could have been your child.
Speaker C:All he needed was love, and all you needed was a child.
Speaker C:He could have not been living in a garbage dump in pain, and you could have not been on this now three and a half, four year journey.
Speaker C:So the message was pretty clear.
Speaker C:And my husband, who is really the sort of gracious civilian in this journey, looks over at me and says, you know, there's a child out there for us.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:And then we knew.
Speaker C:And once we got that picture, we started to see more and more helpers and healers showing up on our road of life.
Speaker A:More and more, your synchronicity started coming in tenfold from the other side.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:The most glorious, of course, is my truly, my mother is she may not even know it.
Speaker C:A plain clothes shaman, you know, and she's the first to call and she said, you know, I just wanted to let you know she knew nothing about this powerful synchronicity we just shared on bedrest.
Speaker C:I just wanted you to know our neighbor, and I'll call her.
Speaker C:Greta Jones has just adopted the most beautiful little boy.
Speaker C:His name is Robert Paul and he's so wonderful and he's from Russia.
Speaker C:And just so you know, here's the information.
Speaker C:Love you.
Speaker C:Bye.
Speaker A:You know, it's crazy because that in itself is a spiritual intervention.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And I think that's amazing.
Speaker A:You know, reading that in the book as well, I was like, you know what?
Speaker A:They're meant to have it, but it's not meant to be in the material world.
Speaker A:It's got to be surrendered to the divine.
Speaker C:This gracious loving guidance, this sacred divine hold.
Speaker C:Guided, loved, held, guided, loved at all times.
Speaker C:And what were we doing?
Speaker C:We were fighting the river.
Speaker C:We were swimming upstream.
Speaker C:No, no more.
Speaker C:One more in vitro, One more in vitro human control.
Speaker C:Put the pieces together mechanistically.
Speaker C:And who I call God, you could call divine spirit or the sacred force of life was really ushering us down the road.
Speaker C:We were at a fork in the road and I quiver to think if I hadn't listened.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Although we know if we don't, we do get another chance.
Speaker C:The volume's turned up.
Speaker C:It's such a loving guiding universe.
Speaker C:We do get multiple chances.
Speaker C:But that was a major fork in the road.
Speaker C:And we started listening more carefully and paying more deep observance to the synchronicities that really assure us along our path.
Speaker C:So this continues and right as we kind of get the picture, one night, Jacques, I'm in bed sleeping next to my husband and I feel a presence coming.
Speaker C:I can feel the presence coming closer and closer.
Speaker C:And I sit up, sit up.
Speaker C:And time and space open up.
Speaker C:This is about three, of course, 3:00am and time and space open up and it's numinous.
Speaker C:And there's an opening in time and space and a very sacred presence comes.
Speaker C:And the message is, if you are pregnant, will you adopt?
Speaker C:That's the message.
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I'm getting goosebumps with this again.
Speaker A:And this is exactly what happened when my wife and I were driving and listening to audible.
Speaker A:Both of us got goosebumps with it because you know what's coming.
Speaker C:You can feel the presence coming.
Speaker C:Very sacred.
Speaker C:Very sacred.
Speaker C:Very regal is not quite the word.
Speaker C:It's beyond that.
Speaker C:It's an ultimate Presence.
Speaker C:There's a profound presence.
Speaker C:It is a ultimate sacred presence.
Speaker C:And the message was clear and the voice was deep and resonant.
Speaker C:Deep and resonant like an om.
Speaker C:It was a deep and resonant voice.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:In the presence of some.
Speaker C:The ultimate sacred presence.
Speaker C:Of course, we're very honest.
Speaker C:And I said, honestly, no, no, if we got pregnant at one of these IVFs, I'd go with that baby.
Speaker C:And so we continue further down the path and I can't get my sticky fingers off it, you know, the baby with my schnoz and my husband's humor.
Speaker C:Let's get that baby, the little us, you know, and further down the path.
Speaker C:And I have more in vitros.
Speaker C:More in vitros.
Speaker C:And can you imagine what this does to the body?
Speaker A:You know, I know you mentioned that you were.
Speaker A:You were suffering physically from all of the injections and the holes in your system.
Speaker C:They'd take out maybe 20 eggs at a time.
Speaker C:I seem to respond quite prolifically to this medication.
Speaker C:I thought, well, for me and our path, this didn't seem fluid.
Speaker C:This didn't seem aligned and syntonic.
Speaker C:So I can't resist, though.
Speaker C:It's sort of the knowing of the heart versus the sticky fingers of the striving mind.
Speaker C:And I gotta have so more in vitros.
Speaker C:And I come back the house.
Speaker C:This is after about our ninth in vitro.
Speaker C:And I just have this sinking feeling in my heart that we're still in the wrong place and that we've sort of strayed now we're not sticking to our path.
Speaker C:And as I step up to our front door of our home in the country, peaceful, quiet place, used to be a fishing cabin, tiny little lovely place.
Speaker C:On the front door is a.
Speaker C:There's something moist and wet and I can't tell what it is.
Speaker C:I haven't seen this before.
Speaker C:And I lean forward and it's a dead embryo.
Speaker C:I'm walking back from an in vitro and there's a dead embryo on my doorstep.
Speaker C:I mean, it's irrefutable what this means, right?
Speaker A:You know what it means.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Clearly it's far too unprobabilistic to have happened by chance in the years before and in the 20 years since, there's never been a dead embryo on my front step.
Speaker A:That's a sign.
Speaker A:That's a sign and a half.
Speaker C:And it's of guidance.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And as excruciating as it is, I mean, completely depressing.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I understand that.
Speaker C:I look closely and it's a dead duck, a beautiful dead duck.
Speaker C:Embryo.
Speaker C:And I just, you know, it's too depressing.
Speaker C:In the middle of the day, I go in.
Speaker C:I lie down on the couch in my study, and I go to sleep.
Speaker C:And then I hear.
Speaker C:I'm woken by this tapping on my door, my sliding glass door looking out to the river.
Speaker C:And I get up and I'm like, who could that.
Speaker C:And it's a mama duck.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And she's brought me something of great comfort, of great value to her.
Speaker C:She's brought me a plump, juicy worm.
Speaker C:And she's at.
Speaker C:Never has a duck before, never has a duck since.
Speaker C:Come right out of the river, up the stairs to the porch, to my study to bring me a plump, juicy worm.
Speaker C:She lost her baby.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And she was comforting me for losing.
Speaker A:Mine and your needs.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we are loved and held and guided by spirit, who I call God, the great force of life.
Speaker C:And we show up for one another, whether it is my mother, the shaman, right.
Speaker C:Or fellow living being, Mother Duck, we show up for one another.
Speaker C:We are all like emanations raised from the sun of divine orchestration.
Speaker C:And as painful as that was, I felt such love.
Speaker C:And I felt that we are being.
Speaker C:This is a buoyant path.
Speaker C:We are not alone here.
Speaker C:We are never alone.
Speaker A:Was that moment in time, Lisa, your catalyst to your spiritual awakening?
Speaker A:Because I know that you had a spiritual outlook before, but this seemed to be the moment, Jacques.
Speaker C:In my path, it's almost like there's rounds, like an upward helix, you know, more and more, ever closer.
Speaker C:And so the presence came back.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:The presence came back.
Speaker C:And again in the night, I sat up.
Speaker C:It was about 3am Sat up, just woke up suddenly.
Speaker C:And the sacred opening of time and space.
Speaker C:And it's numinous.
Speaker C:It's numinous, right?
Speaker C:And the presence.
Speaker C:I could feel the presence coming.
Speaker C:There's almost a rhythm as the presence comes and asks, if you were pregnant, would you adopt?
Speaker C:And I said, I am.
Speaker C:So much closer.
Speaker C:Like I'm getting it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:But truthfully, if this instant I got pregnant, no.
Speaker C:But I could feel I was approaching someone ready to inherit parenthood, which is unconditional love and acceptance.
Speaker C:And I was getting what parenthood was.
Speaker C:It's like not my schnoz and my husband's sense of humor.
Speaker C:It is the deep connection.
Speaker C:True, unconditional.
Speaker C:So this goes further, right?
Speaker C:And I get a call from another trail angel, as I call them.
Speaker C:Those who help as we meet synchronicities guide us down our emanations of spirit.
Speaker C:And this is my older cousin.
Speaker C:My name is Lisa.
Speaker C:Jane.
Speaker C:My big cousin is Jane, first name Jane.
Speaker C:I'm Little Jane.
Speaker C:She's Big Jane.
Speaker C:It's always been that way.
Speaker C:And she's sort of a guide who's extremely frank with me, you know, told me unwanted things I didn't even want to know about my family, you know, very frank with me.
Speaker C:And she calls and she says, you know, hey, little cuz, I know you're having a struggle.
Speaker C:I know you're having a hard time, and I'm wondering if you might come out here to a healing ceremony of the Lakota.
Speaker C:And I said, well, I'd love to come, but I, you know, I have this appointment in Pittsburgh.
Speaker C:She's like, well, the healing ceremony is in three days.
Speaker C:And it worked out, joc, that I went first to our appointment in Pittsburgh, which was, to me, I remember this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:And then to Big Jane.
Speaker C:So the appointment in Pittsburgh, in this.
Speaker A:Guided path, weren't you in the wrong place?
Speaker A:You were at the wrong place at one point, weren't you?
Speaker A:You had to actually redirect.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:Oh, you're good.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So we're in Pittsburgh, and we're with a clergyman's daughter.
Speaker C:And there we are, Philip and I, sitting at her table.
Speaker C:It is the clergyman's daughter who was recommended by my mother.
Speaker C:You know, I have the information.
Speaker C:Goodbye.
Speaker C:And this beautiful woman has helped bring together probably six, probably now 800 families.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:And her walls are lined with photos of beautiful, radiant families, you know, a little baby and parents or children who are adopted at 4 or 8 and their families.
Speaker C:And, you know, they're on bikes or they're camping or it's the holidays.
Speaker C:And, you know, and I'm like, yes, yes.
Speaker C:I was feeling like I was starting to be in the right place.
Speaker C:There was so much unconditional love.
Speaker C:I was feeling like this is.
Speaker C:This feels right.
Speaker C:So she leans forward and she says, you've got to be very honest with me.
Speaker C:So I've made hundreds of families, brought them together.
Speaker C:You've got to be honest.
Speaker C:What do you want in a child?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And the nuance of what do you want?
Speaker C:Can play either way.
Speaker C:You know, it can sound a little bit like trying to get pregnant.
Speaker C:Like, you know, pick and choose and control.
Speaker C:And I said, you know, I don't care if this child is a boy or a girl.
Speaker C:I don't care what race this child is, but please, a child who can love.
Speaker C:And my husband leans forward and kind of puts his shoulder in my space and says, yes, all that, but kind of a Girl.
Speaker C:And then I reciprocated, sort of do put my shoulder in his face.
Speaker C:And I say, but foremost, a child who can love.
Speaker C:And with that, I went from there to South Dakota to the call, answer the call of Big Jane.
Speaker C:And there I was with Big Jane.
Speaker C:And she said, I want you to know that I've gotten permission from the head of the Lakota community here in South Dakota that you might join us in a healing ceremony.
Speaker C:I've done a lot of work with this tribe, and they have, as a favor to me, have welcomed you.
Speaker C:And so I go to the healing ceremony right from Pittsburgh, and there I am.
Speaker C:It was the most extraordinary experience I'd had.
Speaker C:Each person in the Lakota community stood up in front of the entire community and spoke of why he or she had come.
Speaker C:And after each person told their story, and no one's looking at the clock, it could be two minutes, it could be 20 minutes, it could be an hour.
Speaker C:Everyone's listening.
Speaker C:When the person is done speaking of their pain, the whole community stands up, the drums start and lines up as each person, as God spirit Wanonici moves their heart, speaks into that to be that person, to be healed their ear.
Speaker C:And after this process, the men go one way, the women go the other, and we're all going to separate.
Speaker C:In Nepeus sweat lodge.
Speaker C:Sitting in the sweat lodge, all women, led by the woman who called herself the medicine man's wife.
Speaker C:She welcomed us and she said, tell us why you've come.
Speaker C:To each woman.
Speaker C:As the sweat lodge starts, the nep.
Speaker C:The first woman says, I've come because my son is 40 and he's no longer coming home.
Speaker C:And I'm worried for those kids.
Speaker C:And everyone really listens.
Speaker C:I mean, like, the level of consciousness, it has registered.
Speaker C:And then the next woman speaks.
Speaker C:My son is 14, and he's starting to use drugs and alcohol, and I'm worried he'll be addicted.
Speaker C:And everyone again listens and says, uh huh.
Speaker C:Taken in.
Speaker C:We go around the circle, and it comes to Big Jane and Big Jane.
Speaker C:You know, I'm a professor.
Speaker C:I speak for a living.
Speaker C:It felt so good to have Big Jane speak for me in this moment.
Speaker C:Yeah, this is my cousin little Jane.
Speaker C:And Jock, to this day, she's come looking for her child.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:And they all look and they get it and they go, huh?
Speaker C:And Big Jane says, I wonder if we can help her find her child.
Speaker C:Sitting here in the sweat lodge, the round sweat lodge.
Speaker C:And again, listen.
Speaker C:Aha.
Speaker C:And we go around, complete the circle, and we start the prayers and we pray, and at the end, the fire is put out, and we send up the prayers through the top of the inipi.
Speaker C:And in my mind's eye, I could see the same numinousness.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker C:So that night, that very night, a call came into my machine in New York.
Speaker C:I picked it up early the next morning.
Speaker C:To this day, I feel so grateful to God, so grateful for the loving, infinite guidance of God.
Speaker C:The call comes in from Russia.
Speaker C:We have found the Miller's child.
Speaker C:We have wonderful girls.
Speaker C:Mr. Miller had asked for a girl, and we can give you a girl.
Speaker C:But this is the Miller's child, and this is a son.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:We had been praying for sons, and my son now, of course, is called Isaiah.
Speaker C:For one world.
Speaker C:Lakota.
Speaker C:Lakota.
Speaker C:For the people who helped us find our child.
Speaker C:It was an extraordinary blessing.
Speaker C:So I go home.
Speaker C:I can't wait to see this video of my son, my spiritual son.
Speaker C:And soon the video comes, and here's this radiant.
Speaker C:It's an angel come to earth.
Speaker C:You know, he's up there in an orphanage in northern Russia.
Speaker C:Da, da, da.
Speaker C:So full of life, his arm around the nerve.
Speaker C:He glows.
Speaker C:He literally glows.
Speaker C:And that night, after I've seen Isaiah, I've seen our boy, I feel the presence coming the third time.
Speaker C:And I know now, of course, and it's coming closer, and the sacred rhythm of approach and the numinous opening in the night.
Speaker C:And the President says, and I know.
Speaker C:I feel I may know what they're going to ask.
Speaker C:If you were pregnant now, would you adopt?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:This is my spiritual son.
Speaker A:I gave him goosebumps again.
Speaker C:And that night we conceived naturally.
Speaker C:His sister, kind of a girl.
Speaker C:His spiritual twin.
Speaker C:That night, after five years of all the best infertility doctors, this was not a mechanistic control problem.
Speaker C:This did not live in the province of human control.
Speaker C:This was about a sacred path.
Speaker A:This was a divine intervention.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And it exemplifies not our human condition or spiritual condition.
Speaker A:It exemplifies who we are as spirits having a human experience and not the other way around.
Speaker C:And how we can move in the world at a foundationally, primary, foremost spiritual level.
Speaker C:That it's through the gift and blessings of what I, who I call trail angels.
Speaker C:Sent by spirit, sent by God.
Speaker C:Emanations like rays from the sun.
Speaker C:Trail angels and synchronicities.
Speaker C:Sacred guidance.
Speaker C:We are loved and held.
Speaker C:We are guided, and we are never alone, whether it's Big Jane or Mama Duck.
Speaker C:I mean, all of the hopers and healers along the Way.
Speaker C:So a spiritual path is a foundationally spiritual way of being and seeing and perceiving, knowing of the heart, knowing of our deep inner spiritual awareness.
Speaker C:And it seemed to me that depression was a call into an awakening.
Speaker C:That was my journey.
Speaker C:That the utter bottom of the barrel despair we felt.
Speaker C:I mean, my husband was lying on the ground with.
Speaker C:Our lives are hollow and meaningless without children.
Speaker C:That bottom of pain was the invitation to pay attention to the loving, guiding universe.
Speaker C:That was the invitation to look and hear.
Speaker C:And once we opened up to the orphan in the garbage dump as showing us, as being brought to us by God, by spirit, we lived in a dialogue from then forward.
Speaker C:A dialogue.
Speaker C:What do you show me now, higher power?
Speaker C:What do you ask of me, God?
Speaker C:What is a deeper unconditional love that would honor us, to elevate us to parenthood?
Speaker C:Not that the kid comes home, but that we are prepared to have unconditional love.
Speaker C:Then we're parents.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now, how was Steve?
Speaker A:Was Philip.
Speaker A:Sorry, Was he pretty spiritual beforehand?
Speaker A:Or did this also have a dramatic impact on his awakening to a certain level?
Speaker C:Jacques, that is such a magnificent question.
Speaker C:No one's ever asked me that before.
Speaker C:Philip's mother is a very spiritual woman and a spiritually oriented psychologist as well.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:And she practices as such.
Speaker C:And his whole childhood was full of stories of a foundationally spiritual reality.
Speaker C:So he honors his mother and he honors me in being voices of spiritual awareness.
Speaker C:He doesn't always see it himself, or he claims perhaps not to always see it himself.
Speaker C:And yet on the big ones, he sure gets it and speaks up.
Speaker C:So, for instance, the orphan in the garbage dump, it was Philip who said, there's a child out there for us.
Speaker A:I noticed that.
Speaker A:I was going to say that because it seemed that there was a synchronistic event that made him awaken to that point.
Speaker C:He awoken.
Speaker C:He did awaken to that point.
Speaker C:And he, I think, is completely open to synchronicity and does see it, but counts on sort of his mother, his wife, as sort of the voice in the family on a daily basis.
Speaker C:But it's a beautiful question, Joc, because he is open.
Speaker C:Bottom line, that that is ultimate truth.
Speaker C:That is the hard data.
Speaker C:That is the bedrock on which we make a choice.
Speaker A:I think there's a contrast to him because you say he's a lawyer.
Speaker A:And I've dealt with.
Speaker A:I actually own helplawyer.com, so I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lawyers in my time.
Speaker A:And what I find is that they're.
Speaker A:They Try to grasp to a spiritual concept, but they can't because they don't understand the difference between divine law and man's law.
Speaker A:They can't equate divine law to man's law.
Speaker A:And so they're caught up in man's law because that's what they know.
Speaker A:And yet there's this pull.
Speaker A:There's this pull to try and get them in there, and it causes conflict.
Speaker C:So I would say that Philip indeed does perceive the difference between the axioms of our sacred universe and the rules made by man.
Speaker C:I think he does see the difference.
Speaker C:But I think the point you're raising about our society is extremely important that I'll start at home.
Speaker C:The pain I felt for five years searching for my child was because I was looking among the things made by humans.
Speaker C:In vitro fertilizations, higher rates of conception.
Speaker C:And it was only when I fully.
Speaker C:It's not just surrendered, leaned forward, trusted, and walked the path of divine guidance.
Speaker A:That's when it came full circle.
Speaker C:Well, first of all that the family came.
Speaker C:But this is not only a story of the family arriving, It's a story of a spiritual path.
Speaker C:I think perhaps there for all of us through which we awaken, where we move from the things that we count on made by humans that don't show up.
Speaker C:And certainly in Covid that was clear our institutions, you know, oh, the hospital's full up.
Speaker C:Your employer closed, you know, the things by humans to opening to the deep, buoyant guidance that we are loved and held, guided and never alone of God, spirit, the universe.
Speaker C:That hundred percent.
Speaker C:I don't mean half and half or ninety percent.
Speaker C:Hundred percent.
Speaker C:Full trust that I'm going to have my front heel strike on the divine path.
Speaker C:That's a choice.
Speaker C:And it came to me very, very clear that that is the only path that we are designed to walk, the spiritual path.
Speaker A:You know, it's almost many years ago when I sat in circle, obviously someone deadly departed.
Speaker A:So I can talk about this thing.
Speaker A:And I do deep trance work.
Speaker A:And I remember one of the statements that I've lived by ever since that came through when we were in circle was from my own spirit team, my own guide, who said, the truth is the truth no matter what.
Speaker A:It is merely the perception of truth that is manipulated by man.
Speaker A:But divine truth will never change.
Speaker A:It is constant.
Speaker C:Well, I think we're built.
Speaker C:Having walked that path and made a choice at the fork in the road, the rest of my life, I will do everything I can to walk the sacred path, the spiritual path.
Speaker C:I could at times get distracted or make mistakes.
Speaker C:But my mission is to walk the spiritual path.
Speaker C:I then set, as a scientist to work to help through the lens of science, bear witness to this.
Speaker C:This awesome truth that I knew through my deep intuitive knowing, through my mystical perception, through what we now know as our birthright for spiritual awareness.
Speaker C:I set to show that to the medical community, the mental health community, because the language at the moment of the mental health community was one of clinical science.
Speaker C:And if we could show the centrality and transformative power of spiritual awareness, what I call awakened awareness, if we could reveal the awakened brain, then perhaps mental health could embrace this deep foundational truth of who we are as humans.
Speaker A:Lisa, what gave you the idea to look at?
Speaker A:Because I love the aspect that you dive into the neuroscience science as well.
Speaker A:And I'm forever arguing with scientists on the brain and the mind.
Speaker A:So what gave you this inkling that.
Speaker A:Wait a minute.
Speaker A:There's got to be a concept in our biological makeup, in the brain that is set for spiritual awakening, spiritual realization.
Speaker C:And as you suggest, it's a very beautiful point, and it's a subtle point, Chuck, that I'm not saying the brain makes spirituality.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I'm saying that the brain is perhaps a docking station or an antenna or an expression of space.
Speaker A:That's what I say.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The brain is an expression of divine mind, or mind, as the mind being the psychological building blocks of our reality.
Speaker C:Beautiful.
Speaker C:And that is, for neuroscience, hopefully, where we are in our growth.
Speaker C:That in the 20th century, the metaphor of the brain was like a factory making packages of something, that the brain packages up thoughts.
Speaker C:But increasingly, in the 21st century, we're starting to understand consciousness.
Speaker C:And here we're talking about sacred consciousness.
Speaker C:Not just information, but love, guidance and intention.
Speaker C:Sacred.
Speaker C:And from coming from source, the sacred, who I call God.
Speaker C:So here we are starting to understand consciousness as existing independent of matter, which means that the brain can be a reification, coming into form and antenna of sacred consciousness.
Speaker C:And what we have in our MRI machines is the capacity to show which part of the brains go hand in hand with receiving consciousness.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Which parts of the brain are engaged during moments of deep spiritual awareness?
Speaker C:And to a mental health field, that's very powerful evidence that we are built for spiritual awareness.
Speaker C:And we take that and we say, listen, every human being on earth is built as an innately spiritual being, an innately spiritual being.
Speaker A:I think it's amazing.
Speaker A:I think that's amazing because it also brings to the forefront of our minds or the forefront of reality, that with that being the truth, or with that being reality, that we have the power to be able to reverse what it has.
Speaker A:What maybe has came in unbalanced, you know where.
Speaker A:And maybe that's somewhere where we need to go even deeper, especially in mental health, because I see it as an imbalance, as something that we need to bring into balance.
Speaker A:And so we have that power within us.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But most people don't realize that.
Speaker C:And it's all of ours, as you say.
Speaker C:It's all of ours.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So it's.
Speaker C:Well, I'll share with you a few points of science that I think really have helped change mental health.
Speaker C:The first is that science has a tool.
Speaker C:Science has always had a perfectly good lens for looking at innate spirituality, but we didn't use it.
Speaker C:We didn't use it.
Speaker C:And that was not a limitation of our lens.
Speaker C:We can point our lens at a broad host of questions, whether it's an MRI study or an epidemiological study or a telescope.
Speaker C:We can point it anywhere.
Speaker C:But the limitation in the 20th century was in us, the scientists.
Speaker C:We, the scientists, now that we have started asking questions about spirituality and the human journey and the road of life.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:The findings I take to be a form of sacred witness.
Speaker C:It is jaw dropping, Jock.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:I mean, it is.
Speaker C:It's like when we split the atom and infinite energy came out.
Speaker C:A sacred moment like that.
Speaker C:So what do we know?
Speaker C:Okay, well, for when we use the twin study method, twins raised together, twins raised apart.
Speaker C:Factor out genes, environment, we can know, you know, anything about the extent to which a human capacity is inborn or environmentally shaped.
Speaker C:So temperament.
Speaker C:If we're outgoing, introverted, high strung, laid back, that's half inborn, half environmentally formed.
Speaker C:So if a baby wakes up in the night and is anxious, we can soothe the baby.
Speaker C:If we find ourselves a little uncomfortable in social situations, we can change our inner environment through meditation or other ways of using our inner life.
Speaker C:Well, the capacity through which we perceive into the spiritual reality, our awakened brain is one third innate.
Speaker C:It is a human inborn capacity.
Speaker C:But it is two thirds environmentally formed, which means our opportunity to engage, to practice, to learn.
Speaker C:I liken it in some respects to musical ability.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:We all can feel the deep rhythm.
Speaker C:We all have an innate musical ability.
Speaker C:We can all enjoy maybe moving a little to a song and dance.
Speaker C:We all are innately rhythmic, if you will.
Speaker C:And then there's natural human variability and honoring your audience here.
Speaker C:There's probably a great number of people who are exquisitely attuned, who are the maestros and the composers and the.
Speaker C:The professional musicians, if you will.
Speaker C:And those folks are representative of human variability.
Speaker C:We have one spiritual brain all around the world.
Speaker C:But there's natural variability, some as there's with music or math or anything else.
Speaker C:And of course, two thirds environmentally formed means that our use of this gift of our awakened brain to practice, whether it's through prayer and meditation, whether it's through service, and service in a way that's guided by spirit, the more we use our awakened brain, the stronger it becomes.
Speaker C:And that includes sacred work.
Speaker C:So I honor every human being as a spiritual being.
Speaker C:And to the extent that we choose to engage the spiritual path, we strengthen evermore this birthright.
Speaker A:Do you think one of the.
Speaker A:One of the things that I want to jump on.
Speaker A:You've mentioned choice a number of times, which is probably one of the greatest divine gifts that we've ever been given.
Speaker C:Beautiful.
Speaker C:Oh, Chuck, what a way to think of it.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:The power of choice that we are given by the divine is up to us.
Speaker A:And I have this concept where I say we have restricted free will because we don't have total free will.
Speaker A:Because if we had total free will, then destiny wouldn't play a part in it and we wouldn't have spiritual growth.
Speaker A:We wouldn't learn anything.
Speaker A:But I feel that the power of choice that we have probably it's a dialogue, and it probably becomes stronger with struggle and trauma, which leads us to becoming more aware of the power of choice that we have to take a spiritual path where we may then fall away from a religious, dogmatic belief system and then start to investigate, wait a minute.
Speaker A:We are greater than the sum total of anything that we are.
Speaker A:And we are greater than the perceptions and the expectations of religion.
Speaker A:Where is the seed of awareness in us?
Speaker A:Has taken us to a new level where we're maybe jumping between knowledge and wisdom.
Speaker A:Wisdom being the hidden bridge and knowledge being the intellectual.
Speaker C:So I so agree with you that choice is a sacred gift.
Speaker C:And I sometimes think of choice in these moments where we know it is a profound moment of choice.
Speaker C:I mean, sometimes it can be clear and outward, but sometimes it's something more nuanced that we know through our knowing heart, our intuition, our mystical awareness.
Speaker C:I think of those moments of choice as something of a wormhole between universes, that everything unfolds differently from that point.
Speaker C:That's not to say we can't be redeemed.
Speaker C:We can.
Speaker C:We can always be redeemed and forgiven.
Speaker C:Have another wormhole, perhaps, if it's given.
Speaker C:But choice is a sacred Moment.
Speaker C:And I think of it indeed as a dialogue with the sacred universe.
Speaker C:What are you showing me now?
Speaker C:What do you ask of me now?
Speaker C:I've worked for four years.
Speaker C:Interestingly, Jock, the Pentagon and I have worked together for three, three and a half, close to four years.
Speaker C:And the chief of chaplains in the Pentagon, two star General Chaplain Tom Soldier speaks of divine appointment.
Speaker C:He talks about moments where there's two helicopters taking off and there's just been combat and where does he go?
Speaker C:And he feels in his spiritual heart go left.
Speaker C:Even though, you know, the plan was to go right.
Speaker C:And the plan until that moment had been to board the helicopter on the right.
Speaker C:The heart says go left.
Speaker C:So he goes left and he gets on the helicopter and it takes off and there's three wounded soldiers.
Speaker C:And chaplain Soldier tells the story of being able to pray and be in deep spiritual community with these three soldiers, deep spiritual bond.
Speaker C:And Jock, all three of them survived.
Speaker A:Wow, that's powerful intuition right there.
Speaker C:And I love his term divine appointment.
Speaker C:That when we listen to the pull of God, of spirit saying go left this time, that's a divine appointment.
Speaker C:And sure enough, who should come around the corner but.
Speaker C:And there's an opportunity for helping, for healing, for being a trail angel.
Speaker A:You know, it's amazing.
Speaker A:When I wrote my first book, when I wrote powers of the sixth sense, I wrote it after 9, 11 to show.
Speaker A:It's called how to remain safe in a Hostile World.
Speaker A:And that's exactly what I talk about about these, the divine nuances, how to discern the difference between the ego mind and to discern the intuit of the divine mind, to be able to.
Speaker A:And I interviewed a lot of soldiers as well.
Speaker A:Being a soldier myself, I kind of, I understood it how we can utilize that power, that sacred power that we have within us to remain safe in a potentially hostile situation.
Speaker C:And it is a deeper form of knowing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, it's interesting, I love how you say knowing because that's something I espouse all the time.
Speaker A:I've been on many radio shows and they've said, you know, do you believe in the afterlife?
Speaker A:And I say, no, I actually don't believe in anything because if I believe in something, that means I'm open, I have room for interpretation.
Speaker A:And I don't want to believe in anybody's perceptions or expectations.
Speaker A:I want to come to knowing.
Speaker A:Because no one is divine, no one means there is no interpretation.
Speaker A:It comes from a divine source and it's connected, interconnected to me.
Speaker A:So I, I love the fact that you talk about knowing.
Speaker A:Wonderful.
Speaker C:I think you're raising a point as well, that oftentimes spirituality is spoken of as a belief.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Through the lens of clinical science, spirituality is an innate seat.
Speaker C:It is a neuro seat of perception.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we are built to quite specifically be able to perceive the transcendent, the loving, guiding transcendent, and perceive that presence, that sacred presence in our love for one another as fellow human beings.
Speaker C:Transcendence and immanence.
Speaker C:We are built with a neuro docking station to perceive transcendence and immanence, who we really are to each other.
Speaker C:And fellow living beings like Mother Duck, of course.
Speaker C:So we are all in this sacred dialogue.
Speaker C:And the more that we not just pay attention, but contribute.
Speaker C:Thank you, Mother Duck.
Speaker C:And help her someday.
Speaker C:The more that we're part of.
Speaker C:That's prayer in action.
Speaker C:In my point of view.
Speaker C:Then we are participating in this divine orchestra.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I always teach students that.
Speaker A:The same.
Speaker A:And we spoke about this yesterday.
Speaker A:And I think it exemplifies beautifully.
Speaker A:What you're saying is that the same animating force that animates the duck animates us.
Speaker A:It means that, you know, Lisa Miller was the duck and the Duck was Lisa Miller.
Speaker A:There was no separation.
Speaker A:There was more connection than there was disconnection.
Speaker A:And I think when humanity comes to understand that, maybe we can transcend this idea of humanity and start to realize that we are actually interconnected more than we even imagine.
Speaker A:And that every thought and every action and every prayer has its own internal power to be able to transform and change.
Speaker C:And just as who I call God, Spirit, source, universal force for us is loving, holding and guiding and never leaves us alone, we, through this great presence, can show up for one another to be loving, holding and guiding so that no one is ever left alone.
Speaker C:We can be instruments of divine expression.
Speaker A:You know, you've had amazing experience.
Speaker A:There's a lot of people out there, Lisa, that don't have.
Speaker A:That have probably missed the experiences.
Speaker A:It may even be right in front of their face, but they miss it.
Speaker A:As a scientist, you have experienced the lows and the highs and the spiritual awakening.
Speaker A:What would you say to people out there that are struggling now with maybe where they are in the world or the fact that they don't feel held in love?
Speaker A:What could you awaken in them?
Speaker C:That feeling of emptiness and doubt and total alienation.
Speaker C:That darkness is actually the start.
Speaker C:It's the ignition of the spiritual path.
Speaker C:It is the pounding at the door of an opening to awakening.
Speaker C:And gently, very gently, I invite you to watch who comes and how they come.
Speaker C:Whether it's dusting off a rusty prayer or meditating or talking to fellow living beings in nature, rejoining the kingdom.
Speaker C:I don't think that Eden is someplace in the past.
Speaker C:I think Eden is when we join in the symphony of all life.
Speaker A:Oh, that's brilliant.
Speaker A:That is brilliant.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:That's actually probably going to be one of the clips that we take from here to promote the episode.
Speaker A:I think that's beautiful.
Speaker C:And how you say that right there, inviting you in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, people miss it because I tend to think people don't look with their spiritual eyes.
Speaker A:They're too busy looking.
Speaker A:I have a saying.
Speaker A:They say, don't look with the eyes of the merchant, look with the eyes of the spirit.
Speaker C:Beautiful.
Speaker A:Because that's the way we think.
Speaker A:Lisa, we're coming.
Speaker A:It's up to nearly an hour.
Speaker A:I've loved having you.
Speaker A:I really, really enjoyed having you on here, and I want you to come back on because I think there's a lot more that we can unpack.
Speaker A:I hope you will, Chuck.
Speaker C:You're wonderful.
Speaker C:It's a joy to share the path.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot that people can learn from this.
Speaker A:And for you guys that are out there that are also on a grief path, you'll catch myself and Lisa going into another, deeper subject on Pillars of Grief, which is my other podcast.
Speaker A:But remember, from what you listen in here, there's a great deal of hidden lessons in this.
Speaker A:The paranormal is actually so normal because we're all connected and we all only exist because the divine spirit runs through us.
Speaker A:And when we recognize that, then, you know, the expression of the brain being the expression in the mind, understand that you have the power to transform your depression.
Speaker A:You have the power to transform your sadness.
Speaker A:You have the power to transform every aspect of your life.
Speaker A:And if one thing you can learn.
Speaker A:I just want to bring up the book again.
Speaker A:Guys, you gotta buy this book.
Speaker A:I told you.
Speaker A:I bought it on audible, Kindle, and in hardback.
Speaker A:There's a lot of lessons in this.
Speaker A:I've read many, many books in my life, and there's very few that I really, really love.
Speaker A:And this is one that I really love because it exemplifies not only science, but it exemplifies what we are trying to do and what we've been trying to do for so many years to bring spirit and science together and show that there is actually a relationship, just as there is in divine law, and that none of them are different.
Speaker A:We're actually so much more the same.
Speaker C:Josh, thank you for sharing in the awakened brain.
Speaker C:It is a joy to share this with you and your community.
Speaker A:Oh, I love it and I can't wait to have you back on.
Speaker A:And do you want to just say final thoughts to people out there?
Speaker A:Tell us what you're planning next or what you've got on the cards?
Speaker C:I wish you so much joy and discovery.
Speaker C:The spiritual path can hurt at times, but it's always an invitation to a deeper understanding of how very much we are loved and held and that you are never, ever, ever alone.
Speaker C:And so I'd say thank you for this gift of being with you and may God bless.
Speaker A:You loved it.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Loved it.
Speaker A:And just remember guys, that your trauma is the gateway to your awakening.
Speaker A:God bless.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us on Deadly Departed.
Speaker A:Hi there ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:If you have purchased Deadly Departed, it means a lot to me.
Speaker A:Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting my work.
Speaker A:And if you haven't bought Deadly Departed yet, then consider buying Deadly Departed.
Speaker A:You can get it on Amazon or you can get it in any bookstore and you can show proof of purchase and join my closed group.
Speaker A:You can also reach out to me on Instagram at any time, Spiritual Medium, if you have a question and I will answer it.
Speaker A:Have a wonderful day, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you once again.
Speaker A:God Bless.
Speaker B:You've been listening to Deadly Departed with renowned evidential medium and author Jock Brocas.
Speaker B:If you like what you've heard, make sure to pick up a copy of the Deadly Departed book.
Speaker B:Don't forget to share the episodes and send in your questions to us about anything paranormal and the afterlife.
Speaker B:Tune in next time to Deadly Departed, the do's, don'ts and dangers of afterlife communication.
